JUDO vs WRESTLING 80 years ago
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Subject: Do you know Mr. Santell?
From: Gryphon
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 12:17 PM

Yesterday was March 6th in Japan. Do you know the Mixed martialarts match JUDO vs Wrestling in Japan just 80 years ago?

In 1921,The USA wrestling Champion came to Japan and fighted Judo champ. His name was Ad Santell.

in1900-1920,Japan Judo KODOKAN association sent USA many tough and skillful Judo fighter to promotion of this new sport. They all was very strong,and they often beated some other martialartists.because Judo's submission was unknown at that time.

But,Only Ad Santell intercepted Japanese Judo guy perfectely. In 1914,SF,He beated Ito Tokugoro(black belt,Go(5)dan).So KODOKAN sent the stronger man Sakai.But Sakai bited off his own head by Santell.

But If he had been satisfied with this result,Many japanese would have forgotten him.

But,Santell came to Japan,and warmongering!Santell fling down a challenge to KODOKAN. Although Kodokan rejected this challenge officially.Two young strong Judo men Nagata & Shoji challenged Santell.

They fighted in Yasukuni Shrine. For Santell,It was not only"AWAY".There is a National Cemetery like Arlington.Holy land for Ultra nationalist.Maybe All audience hated Santell. And,he had to wear GI jacket.To be frank with you,It was not fair.

But,It was incredible. Santell lay Nagata out by necklock.it was perfect victory(by rule trouble,official result was no contest) .Shoji vs Santell was Draw.But It was said Santell always kept advantage.

He was the Brave.He came to "AWAY",he fighted unknown Martialarts JUDO,and accepted the rule opponent demanded.So, he became Legend in Japan.

Shoji started training wrestling after this fight and he imported official wrestling system and techinic.he has been known as father of wrestling in Japan. Their DUEL did not make hatered but new relationship and cultural interchange.it was ideal situation in sports.

After it,Santell became teacher of Lou Thesz. Even if it was prowrestling,Lu Thesz came to Japan and fighter RIKIDOZEN. Japanese audience was so excited.

This is for the memory of The Greatest Invader.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: whaledog
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 12:42 PM


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Gryphon
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 12:45 PM

newspaper at that time.


Subject: RE: INFO
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 12:47 PM

Very cool.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: stevekt
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 12:56 PM

Tough old school bastards. I've heard of Santell in Thesz' book. Did Santell ever get into it with Kimura?

Domo Gryphon.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Conscious
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 12:57 PM

That pic is awesome.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 01:33 PM

yeah, I remember reading about that...there was also a really cool post on the UG a couple years ago which had excerpts from another catch wrestler's book. He talked about how it was impossible to beat judo guys in a gi, but that the converse was true as well, and that if you could learn both that you would be incredible (look at guys who crosstrain shooto/bjj or any no-gi/gi hybrid).

The old-timers were cool, if you had a martial art that you wanted to teach, you had to prove that it worked by fighting people...how many McDojos would be in business back then?

Subject: RE: INFO
From: beau
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 01:37 PM


Looks like he's working that guard.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: mwit
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 01:42 PM

It was truly super happy exiciting time. I think Santell preceded Kimura ? This would have had to have been in the early 1900's ???

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Cooter
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 01:42 PM

Gryphon scores again--thanks for the info!

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 01:56 PM

yep, Santell did come before Kimura

Gryphon, after this, did Japan do better in amateur wrestling?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Stronghold
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 02:06 PM

But, Santell came to Japan, and warmongering! Santell fling down a challenge to KODOKAN.

What the hell does that mean?

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Gryphon
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 02:11 PM


By the way, There was another article above it in this newspaper,

This article said "The party for Master Kano Jigoro(founding father of JUDO)was Hold, He has worked as leader of a JPN group in the Belgium Olympic Games."

it was symbolic metaphor.

Judo had already matured, established a status and a precise rules at that time.it is good.

But by it,JUDO lost Dynamism and spirit"We are stronger than other martialarts,and We prove it"

Before this VS Santell, KODOKAN decrared that If JUDO men fight with a wrestler, they will be excommunicated from this organization........ At least,This principle continues in Japan now.(So a judo expert under the direct KODOKAN's control can not take part in MMA event today)

ps Kimura is after santell.(He was born 1n 1917). He was infancy at that time.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Gryphon
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 02:17 PM


It means that Santell decrared"I am the strongest. I will fought with a KODOKAN's Japanese judo expert and it will be proved."

>did Japan do better in amateur wrestling?

yes,by Shoji's effort,Japan could grow many medalists in Olympics(Although today's JPN wrestling is not so strong...)

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Laughing Lion
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 03:35 PM

Thanks Gryphon!

Subject: RE: INFO
From: ogle
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 04:43 PM

Here's an account of the challenge translated from Japanese

                           In A.D. 1921
War was beginning

Outside Yasukuni Shrine - An explosion occurs.

Inside Bridge
Shoji: "What happen ?"
Sakai: "Somebody set up us the bomb."

Close-Up of Excited Kodokan Officer
Nagata: "We get signal."
Shoji: "What !"

Ship's Bridge
Nagata: "Main screen turn on."
(SANTELL appears)
Shoji: "It's you !!"

Close up of SANTELL
SANTELL: "How are you gentlemen !!"
SANTELL: "All your base are belong to us."
SANTELL: "You are on the way to destruction."

Close up of Shoji & SANTELL
Shoji: "What you say !!"
SANTELL: "You have no chance to survive make your time."

Ship's Bridge
SANTELL: "Ha ha ha ha ...."

Close up of Forlorn Shoji
Nagata: "Shoji !!"

Ship's Bridge (ZIGs on monitors)
Shoji: "Take off every 'ZIG'!!"

Shows a ZIG pilot powering up
Shoji: "You know what you doing."

Shows a ZIG moving into launch position
Shoji: "Move 'ZIG'."

ZIGs on monitors, Bridge Explodes
Shoji: "For great justice."

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Gortiz
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 06:01 PM

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 06:10 PM

All your Kodokan belong to us =)

thanks Gryphon

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 06:10 PM

All your Kodokan belong to us =)

thanks Gryphon

Subject: RE: INFO
From: davenhb
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 06:26 PM

damn you beat me to it :) LOL

Subject: RE: INFO
From: mwit
Date: 06-Mar-01 | 06:30 PM

Damn, LOL.

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